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Read March 01, 2007, 02:35:51 PM #0
Matt McFarland

Contest Results

Looks like we are finished judging and reviewing all games.  I took the longest and I apologize to everyone for that.  My life is very hectic right now, lots of things going on.  The results will be brought to the public BEFORE march 10th, 2007.  Thank you for your patience!
« Last Edit: March 01, 2007, 04:38:12 PM by Matt McFarland »

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Read March 01, 2007, 03:02:49 PM #1
charlie

Re: Contest Results

do you mean march? or are you living in the past?

Cheers
Charlie
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Read March 01, 2007, 03:46:03 PM #2
motorherp

Re: Contest Results

I'd love to join you then Matt but my flux capacitor is on the blink.  I'm wothout car too and I dont there's much chance of me running at 88 mph or survivng a direct lightning strike ;p


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Read March 01, 2007, 04:28:37 PM #3
Pixel_Outlaw

Re: Contest Results

Usually you want to rip those old pages off your calender when the month ends. Shocked
(Don't worry they don't feel a thing) Tongue

If you don't wish to discard your old pages, you can make a collage of swimsuit models for a lovely accent to any wall.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2007, 04:30:32 PM by Pixel_Outlaw »


Aviator sunglasses are pretty much the shmups of the sunglasses world.
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Read March 01, 2007, 04:38:35 PM #4
Matt McFarland

Re: Contest Results

 shocked2 I fixed the error.. I meant march..


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Read March 01, 2007, 08:29:12 PM #5
cactus

Re: Contest Results

The title of this topic made my heart skip a beat, but the content wasn't quite as exciting... It's a big competition though, so take your time guys  wink2
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Read March 02, 2007, 03:04:25 AM #6
dfyb

Re: Contest Results

looking forward to it Smiley
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Read March 09, 2007, 02:48:23 PM #7
Matt McFarland

Re: Contest Results

Ok folks...  I'm having issues with ezGenerator, what I use to make those nifty contest pages.  But rest assured I'm going to have the results in tomorrow.


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Read March 10, 2007, 10:54:02 AM #8
9_6

Re: Contest Results

Giv results now >:O
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Read March 10, 2007, 06:11:26 PM #9
jony

Re: Contest Results

I'm having issues with ezGenerator

Anyone else find that statement ironic? Smiley
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Read March 11, 2007, 05:42:15 AM #10
Matt McFarland

Re: Contest Results

The contest results are here!!!

http://www.shmup-dev.com/af2k7

good night Smiley


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Read March 11, 2007, 08:47:54 AM #11
9_6

Re: Contest Results

Whoa congratulations cactus!
You made it!
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Read March 11, 2007, 09:58:47 AM #12
Havard

Re: Contest Results

I don't wish to moan and I wouldn't normally but reading the review of the one level demo version of Dark Space was a tad annoying as I worked really hard to get a complete 5 level game up by the deadline!  Don't know what happened there...

Anyway, thanks for a great compo and Dark Space is being drastically improved with support from the forum here and at Retroremakes.
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Read March 11, 2007, 10:16:34 AM #13
cactus

Re: Contest Results

Wow. I really didn't think I'd win Smiley

Is there any possibillity that you guys can link to the updated version of Clean Asia! on the results page? Because I'd rather have people download that than the old version that had several severe bugs in one of the levels. Also, it would seem kinda pointless to link to the old one, when I've put in some effort to make the game better since the deadlie  Undecided

Thanks for a wonderful time and an excellent competition, guys!
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Read March 11, 2007, 10:23:46 AM #14
fsFreak

Re: Contest Results

I agree you winning with the innovation, but NOT that you also win the audio-award Smiley
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Read March 11, 2007, 10:50:53 AM #15
junkboy

Re: Contest Results

Congrats, Cactus! Well deserved.
We'll get you next time, though.  Wink

Thank you shmup-dev crew for hosting this compo, it's been a blast! (hey, was that a pun? I'm not sure).


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Read March 11, 2007, 10:57:44 AM #16
motorherp

Re: Contest Results

Congrats Matt, Tim, and Chalie, a solid job done.  And congrats to everyone who took part.


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Read March 11, 2007, 03:50:54 PM #17
Crimson Knight

Re: Contest Results

Thanks a lot for the support guys. This encourages me to develop more shooters.

I liked reading the reviews of the games listed. There were some I didn't play, and it was great to know a little more about them before I finally did. I especially liked Matt's review sections, he gives a few more details about the game and his opinion, but some games contained more details by all 3 judges which was great.

I liked this competition, and I thank all those who participated in the whole process. Smiley

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Read March 11, 2007, 05:27:25 PM #18
Adigun A. Polack

Re: Contest Results

I think simply that Clean Asia getting the 1st place award is *rather* well-deserved, and so my serious congratulations to you personally for that indeed, cactus!!!  d=Cool=b !!

The 1st-5th official placings were quite well-deserved as well, in my opinion!!  Hey, even though I and Rel did not make it into the Top-5 with Marvellous Twilight, I will DEFINITELY not count myself out... in fact, I can make even better shmups from all that experience that I have!!!  Grin

Congrats to all of you who have entered and made it into the results, whether you have won something or not!  Wink !
« Last Edit: March 11, 2007, 05:30:17 PM by Adigun A. Polack »
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Read March 11, 2007, 05:51:34 PM #19
Pixel_Outlaw

Re: Contest Results

Yes congratulations Cactus!
Your innovation and style were something compleatly original.
You cleaned house with Clean Asia. Grin



Aviator sunglasses are pretty much the shmups of the sunglasses world.
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Read March 11, 2007, 07:25:04 PM #20
Matt McFarland

Re: Contest Results

Wow. I really didn't think I'd win Smiley

Is there any possibillity that you guys can link to the updated version of Clean Asia! on the results page? Because I'd rather have people download that than the old version that had several severe bugs in one of the levels. Also, it would seem kinda pointless to link to the old one, when I've put in some effort to make the game better since the deadlie  Undecided

Thanks for a wonderful time and an excellent competition, guys!

Hey! Yeah that is already done actually.  If you look at the button "Developer Website" it takes you to the updated version.  I wanted to keep the competition versions on there so people understood how we judged the games.  Also, this is explained on the front page, although I may reiterate on the compo page if need be.


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Read March 11, 2007, 07:43:01 PM #21
the2bears

Re: Contest Results

Hey! Yeah that is already done actually.  If you look at the button "Developer Website" it takes you to the updated version.  I wanted to keep the competition versions on there so people understood how we judged the games.  Also, this is explained on the front page, although I may reiterate on the compo page if need be.

You're correct to do it this way, there has to be a "history" of the games as they were in the competition as well as links to get the latest versions.  Great job by all, and again a thanks to Matt, Tim and Charlie for working so hard.  Especially Matt.

Bill


the2bears - the indie shmup blog
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Read March 11, 2007, 10:59:06 PM #22
Foppy

Re: Contest Results

Congratulations to the winners and other entrants and thanks again to the organizers and judges. I agree with the comments made on my game Flyout, if I ever make a sequel these points will be addressed. Smiley
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Read March 12, 2007, 01:00:48 AM #23
relsoft

Re: Contest Results

Congrats to the winners!!! Though I really thought Blessed would win it. :*)

BTW, I can'r seem to access the result page right now...

« Last Edit: March 12, 2007, 01:31:22 AM by relsoft »

Hello
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Read March 12, 2007, 08:54:16 AM #24
Linley

Re: Contest Results

Thanks for the Silver! I'm very happy with it and it's an honour to come second to Clean Asia. This competition was great fun and there are plenty of really good entries.

Special thanks to the judges for giving EB time. It is almost intractable at first, but practice makes it much easier. I'm terrible at shmups and after a bit of playtesting I've managed to no-miss stage 1 on hard Wink. It is possible!

It's a pity the sound was not so well-loved, but that's what you get when you give yourself a day and a half to write an algorithm which makes the music up as it goes along out of a selection of five wav samples! Maybe next time I'll put more time into this part. Also, yeah, a pause feature was one of those last minute things I never got around to. Hm, it may be time to tidy up the source and release that as well.
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Read March 12, 2007, 09:08:34 AM #25
cactus

Re: Contest Results

It's a pity the sound was not so well-loved, but that's what you get when you give yourself a day and a half to write an algorithm which makes the music up as it goes along out of a selection of five wav samples! Maybe next time I'll put more time into this part. Also, yeah, a pause feature was one of those last minute things I never got around to. Hm, it may be time to tidy up the source and release that as well.
I played EB some more a while ago after initially dismissing it as too much of a pain to play. And one of the things that kept me stuck to it was the wonderful music. I really loved it, and can't see why the judges didn't. But my taste is kinda weird I guess. I didn't suspect that it was a song generated from an algorithm, and would've asked you who had made it if I hadn't forgotten about it. I really liked it, although it fit the second level a lot better than the first. The sound effects were awesome too. Everything about the sound was actually good in my opinion  Tongue
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Read March 12, 2007, 09:45:59 AM #26
motorherp

Re: Contest Results

I've gotta agree with cactus on this.  I thought the sounds in EB were greatly suited for the game with their blippy retro feel which matched the graphics and feel of the game perfectly.  I think possibly one of the problems judgeing wise is that the catagories are maybe too specific and dont cover everything.  For example its possible to have a game that has great graphics, sounds, and is like nothing you've played before, but for it still to be rubbish.  Like wise you might have a game that doesn't fit these catagories well but is still a good game.  Because of the way they forced themselves to add up the scores from these 3 catagories to give an overall score I imagine they had to mark some games down in areas they didn't deserve to maintain the overall running order they wanted.  Next time I recommend a more free form method of scoring, either that or have a much more encomapssing set of catagories.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2007, 09:51:48 AM by motorherp »

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Read March 12, 2007, 10:09:47 AM #27
Tim

Re: Contest Results

My excuse is... I gave 95 or 100 for Ex. Bifurc. in nearly all categories, so I had to knock down the score for the sound dept. a little (a lot) lol
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Read March 12, 2007, 11:45:14 AM #28
jony

Re: Contest Results

As the old saying goes there is no accounting for taste, we all would have judged slightly differently but certainly no better!  Thanks to all the judges for you time and reviews!  Congratulations to the winners and great work to everyone, I've played all the games and from the lowest ranked to the highest ranked they were all entertaining to play.  Thanks to everyone for making the competition fun and competitive!

Hey! Yeah that is already done actually.  If you look at the button "Developer Website" it takes you to the updated version.  I wanted to keep the competition versions on there so people understood how we judged the games.  Also, this is explained on the front page, although I may reiterate on the compo page if need be.

I agree that you should keep the contest version but reiterating that the new versions may be available on the developers website is a good idea as well.  Although I may just be dense I didn't really think about going to the author's website to get up-to-date versions.  Just hitting the download button is easier so unless the user has a very good reason to to not just use the download button they will.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2007, 11:51:12 AM by jony »

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Read March 12, 2007, 12:34:10 PM #29
Matt McFarland

Re: Contest Results

Motorherp: The "Overall" score is not an average score based off of Graphics, Sound, or Innovation, it is based on how the judge "feels" about the game.



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Read March 12, 2007, 01:25:38 PM #30
motorherp

Re: Contest Results

Motorherp: The "Overall" score is not an average score based off of Graphics, Sound, or Innovation, it is based on how the judge "feels" about the game.

Sorry, I didn't realise.  Well thats my theory out of the window ;p.  Its definately better this anyway since a game is more than just the sum of its parts.


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Read March 12, 2007, 03:32:02 PM #31
Matt McFarland

Re: Contest Results

Sorry, I didn't realise.  Well thats my theory out of the window ;p.  Its definately better this anyway since a game is more than just the sum of its parts.
I totally agree with you Smiley Great minds think alike!!!   Cool


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Read March 12, 2007, 03:49:08 PM #32
the2bears

Re: Contest Results

Its definately better this anyway since a game is more than just the sum of its parts.

Or less  Sad

Bill


the2bears - the indie shmup blog
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Read March 12, 2007, 11:31:51 PM #33
Pixel_Outlaw

Re: Contest Results

Its definately better this anyway since a game is more than just the sum of its parts.

Or less  Sad

Bill


What do you mean?



Aviator sunglasses are pretty much the shmups of the sunglasses world.
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Read March 12, 2007, 11:43:41 PM #34
the2bears

Re: Contest Results

Mine turned out to be less than the sum of its parts  Tongue

Bill


the2bears - the indie shmup blog
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Read March 13, 2007, 12:01:06 AM #35
Pixel_Outlaw

Re: Contest Results

I thought you were saying that. I liked your game-alot. I personally thought it was very innovative.



Aviator sunglasses are pretty much the shmups of the sunglasses world.
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Read March 13, 2007, 12:06:05 AM #36
cactus

Re: Contest Results

The idea for the gameplay and the fact that you managed to actually materialize it is quite amazing. Unfortunately I couldn't play the game because my computer sucks Undecided
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Read March 13, 2007, 07:13:20 PM #37
dfyb

Re: Contest Results

didn't expect to be rated so low in the graphics department.  no offense, but i don't see how...

this gets a 7.2 in graphics when much simpler games (in terms of visuals) were scored significantly higher. 

http://www.la.gg/upl/riders7.png - 8.4 in graphics

http://xs411.xs.to/xs411/07053/ca_china.PNG - 8.2 in graphics

http://www.users.on.net/~linley.henzell/eb_scr.png - 8.5 in graphics

not trying to derail anything.  just saying.   Wink
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Read March 13, 2007, 07:24:53 PM #38
motorherp

Re: Contest Results

I'm afraid I've got to disagree with you dfyb.  Just because they didn't use an unlimited colour pallet and splash alpha gradients on everything it doesn't make them less accomplished graphically.  The screen shots you link to are all highly stylized and/or have some great sprites which gives a nice overall graphical feel which I imagine is what they've been marked highly for.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 07:26:31 PM by motorherp »

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Read March 13, 2007, 07:43:11 PM #39
Pixel_Outlaw

Re: Contest Results

Well art is mostly about taste, personally your game's graphics seem a bit flat and difficult to understand. That is my take on this. Are they bad? Not necessarily. I just can't get a feel for what you are trying to convey through them. While the other games are somewhat abstract too in nature I feel that the shapes are more defined. They share some elements of form and color.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 07:45:07 PM by Pixel_Outlaw »


Aviator sunglasses are pretty much the shmups of the sunglasses world.
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Read March 13, 2007, 07:51:12 PM #40
cactus

Re: Contest Results

I'm not sure of the reason why Shining Storm scored "low" in the graphics department. The problem I had with the graphics was that they weren't very vivid. The screenshots look awesome, and the sprites themselves are really good, but they have are extremely stiff when you run the game. Some rotation, more fluid animations and lightning effects would've made a big difference in my opinion. There's also a general lack of explosions, which is something that is a must in shmups. The background effect is really cool, though, and the idea of cartridges flying out of the ship's guns when you shoot is pure genius Cheesy

As for why the other games should get high marks, I can say that Excellent Bifurcation (for instance) has very stylized designs for the enemies, weapons, explosions and shots. Most sprites are animated with fluid motions and the effects all fit in to make a wonderful blend of vivid stylishness. The HUD also looks very interesting and cool, and the amount of graphical resources in the game is quite vast. I don't see how it could score lower than what it got Tongue
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Read March 13, 2007, 11:02:24 PM #41
dfyb

Re: Contest Results

I'm afraid I've got to disagree with you dfyb.  Just because they didn't use an unlimited colour pallet and splash alpha gradients on everything it doesn't make them less accomplished graphically.  The screen shots you link to are all highly stylized and/or have some great sprites which gives a nice overall graphical feel which I imagine is what they've been marked highly for.
you could say that about clean asia and excellent bifurcation, but riding on the storm?  the pixelated fire must have really boosted it's graphics score because the rest felt like placeholder graphics. 

http://shmup-dev.com/af2k7/documents/W32_pasted_0.jpeg - 8.4 in graphics.  while the style is cool, it felt like i was just moving an icon while it shot at other icons floating around. 

i'm not saying that these games should be marked down or whatever, but giving these games 8's and giving..

this a 7.2 just seems inconsistant to me.  i'm not asking for anyone to change anything -- what's done is done.  next time, i would just suggest the judges try to be a little more consistant and objective. 

« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 11:23:07 PM by dfyb »
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Read March 13, 2007, 11:29:36 PM #42
the2bears

Re: Contest Results

... but riding on the storm?  the pixelated fire must have really boosted it's graphics score because the rest felt like placeholder graphics. 

No, they weren't placeholder graphics.  Roll Eyes  I was quite specific about the style of them.  Perhaps you did not notice the jets that flew in on beziers, and upon reaching the path's zenith their wings went into a swept-back mode for fast, straight flight?  No need to cut me down while you make your point, considering I actually liked the graphics in your game and commented as much on my blog.

Oh, and it's "Riders on the Storm".

Bill



the2bears - the indie shmup blog
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Read March 13, 2007, 11:37:42 PM #43
Tim

Re: Contest Results

I gave graphics scores based on content as well. For Riders, it's the use of fluid dynamics (not often seen in shmups) which gave it higher marks than usual. Of course, anyone using fluid dynamics again in their shmups will score lower in future compos because bill thought of it first. (unless the entry takes the idea to another level) Grin

For Excellent Bifurcation, it's the number of sprites, background designs and also concept (plus two completely different levels) which makes it deserving of such a score (in my humble opinion). Just because no one can do delicious pixel art like Monokey doesn't mean that they can't score high in the graphics dept. Wink It's also how you use graphics to impress players.

I'm actually quite inclined to give Shining Storm a higher score for graphics if more enemies/levels were made for it. I also like to see the backgrounds clearly as well, instead of a blur (e.g. scrolling backgrounds take longer to draw or model, hence more points). Grin

And the HUD needs work. I do a lot of beta testing for other games (not just shmups), and usually I would tell the developers to make sure that more time is spent on making the HUD as impressive as possible. This is because it is the No. 1 thing that most players see most often in the game. Wink

Sorry for not putting these stuff in the results. Smiley
« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 11:45:32 PM by Tim W. »
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Read March 13, 2007, 11:42:52 PM #44
dfyb

Re: Contest Results

... but riding on the storm?  the pixelated fire must have really boosted it's graphics score because the rest felt like placeholder graphics. 

No, they weren't placeholder graphics.  Roll Eyes  I was quite specific about the style of them.  Perhaps you did not notice the jets that flew in on beziers, and upon reaching the path's zenith their wings went into a swept-back mode for fast, straight flight?  No need to cut me down while you make your point, considering I actually liked the graphics in your game and commented as much on my blog.

Oh, and it's "Riders on the Storm".

Bill


i didn't mean to cut anyone down.  i guess i just didn't expect solid squares to be more than placeholders.  the designs were primitive and the background is flat white.  it just seems like there wasn't too much thought and design put into the visuals.  

i appreciated your blog write-up.  i wouldn't compare it to other games if i didn't have to, but the point i was making was about consistancy with the scores.  
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Read March 14, 2007, 12:02:29 AM #45
the2bears

Re: Contest Results

i didn't mean to cut anyone down.  i guess i just didn't expect solid squares to be more than placeholders.  the designs were primitive and the background is flat white.  it just seems like there wasn't too much thought and design put into the visuals.

Yet still you do it.  The designs were based on primitives, but I don't consider them "primitive", but I guess I'm not an "artist".  Consideration was certainly given for the "going down in flames effect", with square bits of smoke and flame rising up from a downed Zeppelin or Jet, and the bullet holes the Zeppelin received as damage.  I thought about that, too.  I even thought a little bit about the score multiplier numbers that appeared by each enemy killed.

Bill


the2bears - the indie shmup blog
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Read March 14, 2007, 12:14:16 AM #46
dfyb

Re: Contest Results

I'm actually quite inclined to give Shining Storm a higher score for graphics if more enemies/levels were made for it. I also like to see the backgrounds clearly as well, instead of a blur (e.g. scrolling backgrounds take longer to draw or model, hence more points). Grin

And the HUD needs work. I do a lot of beta testing for other games (not just shmups), and usually I would tell the developers to make sure that more time is spent on making the HUD as impressive as possible. This is because it is the No. 1 thing that most players see most often in the game. Wink
yeah if you're including game content (more enemies, levels) into the graphics score, i can see how it would get knocked down.  i was assuming graphics score reflected how the game looks while you play it, seperate from other aspects.  i specifically chose to have a blurred background to emphasize faster speeds and visual excitement, as i havn't really seen it done in shmups -- they almost always have the slow scrolling backgrounds.  

Yet still you do it.  The designs were based on primitives, but I don't consider them "primitive", but I guess I'm not an "artist".  Consideration was certainly given for the "going down in flames effect", with square bits of smoke and flame rising up from a downed Zeppelin or Jet, and the bullet holes the Zeppelin received as damage.  I thought about that, too.  I even thought a little bit about the score multiplier numbers that appeared by each enemy killed.

Bill
i was clarifying what i meant by placeholder.  i know thought went into creating the effects, but i think the actual sprites could have been replaced with more interesting designs. 

i'm stepping on more toes than i wanted to though, so i'll drop it.  i havn't even talked to sharpobject about the results so i'm only speaking for myself in these posts.  cheers. 
« Last Edit: March 14, 2007, 12:23:38 AM by dfyb »
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Read March 14, 2007, 12:27:17 AM #47
Pixel_Outlaw

Re: Contest Results

Bill's game had clearly defined images nothing seemed to blend into other graphics.
I just think its just too blurry. Like the2bears said he put little details in too and those are visual so they are artistic in nature. In a shmup you don't want the enemies to blend together too much or the image as a whole becomes too hard to process.

Don't cut down others, the judges have made their choices.

You CAN express yourself through primatives alone. Look at REZ for ps2.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2007, 12:37:31 AM by Pixel_Outlaw »


Aviator sunglasses are pretty much the shmups of the sunglasses world.
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Read March 14, 2007, 12:48:58 AM #48
the2bears

Re: Contest Results

i was clarifying what i meant by placeholder.  i know thought went into creating the effects, but i think the actual sprites could have been replaced with more interesting designs. 

Perhaps, but they're not really "sprites" per se, really just rendered quads and such.  It's more in my nature to like simpler things based in mathematics... mainly because it's about all I'm capable of designing Smiley

i'm stepping on more toes than i wanted to though, so i'll drop it.  i havn't even talked to sharpobject about the results so i'm only speaking for myself in these posts.  cheers. 

It's all ok, you're just passionate about your work (as I am about mine).  I stand by what I said before: I really like the art for Shining Storm... it had an overall style that I thought worked very well.  I would also like to reiterate that you guys should continue work on it, more levels with similarily styled backgrounds and enemies would be very cool.

Bill


the2bears - the indie shmup blog
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Read March 14, 2007, 01:25:52 AM #49
jony

Re: Contest Results

Staying away from the graphics controversy, the judges can only use their own tastes to judge games if you don't make a game that they like they won't grade it as highly.  That doesn't really say anything about the quality of the game, just a matter of preference.  Had all the judges been five year olds the results would have been very different but no less valid.

While I'm definately gratified that the judges liked the sounds in Trouble in CloudLand I personally don't care for them and believe them to simply be good enough to not distract from the game but don't really add anything to it either.  And I enjoyed the music in Bifercation much more then the music in my own game.  The judges don't agree for what ever personal reasons they have.  Asking what the judges do or don't like about your work is fine but simply because you don't agree doesn't make any one else's work more or less valid.

Pixel graphics aren't used any more in main stream games, heck 2D graphics aren't really used in any main stream games.  That doesn't mean pixel graphics or 2D games can't look incredibly pretty.  However, some people (myself included actually) won't like that style and therefore will grade it lower, not because of the quality of the look but simply because of personal preference.

To re-iterate, asking what could be done to improve your points in future comps is good.  Asking why you didn't score as well as another game that you feel you're better then is not appropriate.

And by the way 2bears I still can't get your game to work... it just stops at your logo and sits there Sad
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Read March 14, 2007, 02:20:16 AM #50
dfyb

Re: Contest Results

Perhaps, but they're not really "sprites" per se, really just rendered quads and such.  It's more in my nature to like simpler things based in mathematics... mainly because it's about all I'm capable of designing Smiley
gotcha.  did you create the fire from scratch?  i hadn't really seen anything like that -- was suprised how fluid and quick it was.  it didn't feel like i was rendering it real time haha. 

It's all ok, you're just passionate about your work (as I am about mine).  I stand by what I said before: I really like the art for Shining Storm... it had an overall style that I thought worked very well.  I would also like to reiterate that you guys should continue work on it, more levels with similarily styled backgrounds and enemies would be very cool.

Bill
shining storm was my first 2D game project -- i might come back to it and do more myself to put on a demo reel (i'm no programmer, but i think for the most part i've figured out the level scripts and bullet patterns), but right now i'm busy with a cel-shaded 3D third person shooter.  i also need to get back to my mod and level design projects... 

Staying away from the graphics controversy, the judges can only use their own tastes to judge games if you don't make a game that they like they won't grade it as highly.  That doesn't really say anything about the quality of the game, just a matter of preference.  Had all the judges been five year olds the results would have been very different but no less valid.
i guess the concern i had was that the judges did rely on their personal preferences a lot.  when someone judges or reviews games, i think it's important for them to be objective and consistant.  if you're aware that the judges are very bias toward their own preferences and you know what they prefer, then you can design your game to appeal strictly to those preferences for an unfair advantage. 

To re-iterate, asking what could be done to improve your points in future comps is good.  Asking why you didn't score as well as another game that you feel you're better then is not appropriate.
if i felt that all of the judges were very objective, i would agree because i would feel like my game was judged fairly and i would have examples to base possible improvements on.  if i looked to their scores for potential ways to improve my visuals, i might as well ditch everything in favor for a solid background and some bright lines and primitives (it would certainly be loads easier on my part).  it might score better in a shmup-dev competition, but outside of that, i think what i have would go over better.  you certainly don't see many professional games with solid backgrounds and primitives -- at least not in the past 20 years.  and i can definitely appreciate older techniques when applied very well -- i think force majure is amazing. Pixel_Outlaw mentioned REZ, which i also think is awesome, but it's not made with just primitives; REZ is full of interesting and unique designs.  in the homebrew shmup scene, i think there are some styles that are very overdone -- i've seen enough squares and triangles. 

but anyway, after learning that the "graphics" score includes much more than just the visuals, i can see why shining storm didn't score as high as some of the others.  i would personally seperate "visuals" and "content" categories if i was judging games. 
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Read March 14, 2007, 02:41:47 AM #51
the2bears

Re: Contest Results

gotcha.  did you create the fire from scratch?  i hadn't really seen anything like that -- was suprised how fluid and quick it was.  it didn't feel like i was rendering it real time haha.

The fire is real, it's an implementation of the Navier-Stokes algorithm for real-time fluid dynamics.  Both velocity and density of fluid are being calculated 60 frames per second Smiley  The flames come from rendering the density with a simple colour scale (white being the most dense, or hottest, down to red then black with a fading alpha).  It's pretty crazy stuff Wink  I think allowing the user to play around with the fluid in the title screen was a good thing... arguably more fun than the game  Shocked

Bill


the2bears - the indie shmup blog
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Read March 14, 2007, 02:46:44 AM #52
the2bears

Re: Contest Results

And by the way 2bears I still can't get your game to work... it just stops at your logo and sits there Sad

Hmmm... sorry, I can't remember if you tried running the downloadable version from an already open console window?  That way there might be some more information printed out that won't get lost if the window just exits.  Now that I think of it, though, I wonder if it's dropping to software mode for the OpenGL for some reason.

Have you tried my latest game, DS4?  I'm wondering if that might work, or if it will give the same behaviour.

Bill


the2bears - the indie shmup blog
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Read March 14, 2007, 02:55:47 AM #53
Tim

Re: Contest Results

but anyway, after learning that the "graphics" score includes much more than just the visuals, i can see why shining storm didn't score as high as some of the others.  i would personally seperate "visuals" and "content" categories if i was judging games. 

Well... we can't actually separate it... content could mean "everything", like sound etc.

I've included "visual content" into graphics for my part. Wink

You could put a simple scrolling starscape into Shining Storm, and I would still give a high score if there were more sprites. it's not only about the backgrounds, there are a lot of things that could have been done to score a few points here and there. (like HUD)

About judges and their personal preferences - even in big competitions (like reality shows, IGF) some judges will still award scores leaning toward one or the other. Plus this time it worked in your favor, as Matt gave a very good score for graphics. Smiley

I don't think there was any bias in this compo though - maybe if there was one or two judges then you could say that. Plus if you try out the first three games, it's easy to tell that there's no preference for one type of graphics (or gameplay) over the other.

Anyway, I like it Shining Storm a lot - though it's a bit short. Wink
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Read March 14, 2007, 08:03:45 AM #54
Tim

Re: Contest Results

lol I just realized that some of Blessed's music are from Loveless Grin
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Read March 14, 2007, 08:59:15 AM #55
motorherp

Re: Contest Results

Dfyb, you seem to be stuck on this idea that visual primitiveness and simplicity equates to less accomplished.  In my opinion it can be much simpler and take less skill to create more visualy complex material using all the filters and colours photoshop has to offer.  I can knock up effects such as those in your game in about 10 minutes in photoshop using layer blending, alpha gradients, cloud rendering, blur filters etc.  The problem is, and like has been pointed out, that unless a lot of care is taken you end up with something that is confusing.  A lot more time, thought, and skill goes into creating a strong binding theme for your game and doing everything by hand however which the games you mentioned demonstrate.  Although their graphics are less complex this is an intentional decision which has been executed well and it works in their favour.  Of course I'm not saying that one method is better than another, but that it all comes down to execution.  I'm not trying to undermine your effort at all, I think it looks pretty good myself and deserving of the score, its still a good score afterall.  I'm just saying dont judge a piece of art by its complexity alone.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2007, 09:04:25 AM by motorherp »

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Read March 14, 2007, 10:46:47 AM #56
dfyb

Re: Contest Results

Dfyb, you seem to be stuck on this idea that visual primitiveness and simplicity equates to less accomplished.  In my opinion it can be much simpler and take less skill to create more visualy complex material using all the filters and colours photoshop has to offer.  I can knock up effects such as those in your game in about 10 minutes in photoshop using layer blending, alpha gradients, cloud rendering, blur filters etc. 
that is some interesting logic you have there.  throw out the idea of putting thought and effort toward designing ships and effects.  just make a circle in mspaint, because somehow that would be more complex and take more skill than designing objects and rendering them in photoshop.  i understand what you were trying to get at, but i think the quoted text is way off the mark. 

Quote
The problem is, and like has been pointed out, that unless a lot of care is taken you end up with something that is confusing.  A lot more time, thought, and skill goes into creating a strong binding theme for your game and doing everything by hand however which the games you mentioned demonstrate.  Although their graphics are less complex this is an intentional decision which has been executed well and it works in their favour.  Of course I'm not saying that one method is better than another, but that it all comes down to execution.  I'm not trying to undermine your effort at all, I think it looks pretty good myself and deserving of the score, its still a good score afterall.  I'm just saying dont judge a piece of art by its complexity alone.
if i had heard similar complaints even once before this thread, it would be easier to see your point.  when i show people the game, they often praise the style.  if they're somewhat familiar with the genre, it often gets compared to ikaruga.  you claim it's confusing, but i think most people would have an easier time grasping my game than some of the more wireframe-like games. 

Well... we can't actually separate it... content could mean "everything", like sound etc.
content would mean game content, as in quantitative values of enemies and levels with appropriate consideration taken.  "appropriate consideration" as in, a game with 100 different mediocre enemies wouldn't necessarily score higher than a game with 15 different brilliant enemies in the content category -- but if one game has 5 great levels and the other has 10 great levels, the game with 10 would of course get a higher score.  the visual category would be how the game looks -- even if there's only one level, it wouldn't effect the "visual"  or "graphics" score because that one level still looked great.   

About judges and their personal preferences - even in big competitions (like reality shows, IGF) some judges will still award scores leaning toward one or the other. Plus this time it worked in your favor, as Matt gave a very good score for graphics. Smiley
well i wouldn't compare yourselves with reality TV shows.  the judges on those shows are serving the purpose of drawing more ratings and viewers -- their priority is not fair, objective scoring.  and yeah matt did give a great score in graphics, as if he didn't account for the lack of additional levels and enemies.  it looks like he accounted for the lack of content in the overall score instead -- his overall score was lower than any of the parts. 

again, this is what i mean by inconsistant.  the categories should be clearly defined and what the categories actually mean should be agreed upon by all judges. 
« Last Edit: March 14, 2007, 11:03:27 AM by dfyb »
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Read March 14, 2007, 11:37:30 AM #57
motorherp

Re: Contest Results

Is my logic off?  Consider for example you can now get machines where you can place an object on a plynth and an array of lasers scan that object creating a computational model of it.  You can then hook this up to a machine which focuses lasers in a tank of resin to create a copy of that model.  Is the man who pushes the button to opperate the machinery an accomplished sculpter?  Does his 'work' deserve more credit than a man who sculpts with his hands out of clay even though the clay creations are no match for the complexity seen in the resin replicas?  I'm not saying you didn't put effort into your work or that using photoshop doesn't take skill, just that the complexity of the finished product isn't always a good indication of the skill involved which is what your arguments up till now have been based upon.

With regards to the confusion of your product I'm refering to the overall incompatability of the elements which make up the finished product.  There's no strong unifying colour scheme.  The style of the oribtal is completely different from that of the ships making it stand out and look wrong in the context.  The background in the distance speeds past really fast where as the clouds which are closer to the camera move slower?  The bullets and lights have glows and yet the enemy ships big laser in your video doesn't.  The lightning flashes occur from all angles.  See what I'm getting at, the elements just dont mesh together that well which creates confusion.  Each element on its own is very nicely done, and kudos for that, but the whole doesn't work as well.  The other games you refer to though all have very strong recurrent themes which gives a nive overall graphical feel even though their individual elements might not be as nice as yours.

I agree with your last point though.  More clearly defined guide lines would possibly have helped.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2007, 11:41:25 AM by motorherp »

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Read March 14, 2007, 11:52:59 AM #58
jony

Re: Contest Results

I agree with your last point though.  More clearly defined guide lines would possibly have helped.

I rather disagree actually.  Had the judges said that they will give higher scores to pixel graphics (or whatever) or would have said 'blurry backgrounds are bad' it would have been the same as telling everyone that they must have pixel graphics and clear backgrounds.  Now thats fine if thats the point of the competition but the point was to open up the field and let people create whatever their hearts desired.  While I certainly had hoped to win that wasn't my goal while creating my game.  I would not have enjoyed myself if I had been making a game to make the judges happy rather then making myself happy.

As a bit of an asside, wineries can hire profession wine tastes that know the pallets of he major wine tasters in the world and an thereby help wineries make wines that will get high marks (which can turn a nothing winery into one that makes millions).  But this has the effect of limiting what kinds of wines are being made, because they're being made to suit just a few peoples pallets.  While I can't fault either the judges or the wineries it is a sad state of affairs.  Make games that you enjoy and use graphics that you like and be happy with your game, that way we can have the diversity to play what ever kind of shmup we want to play. 

Leaving the field open, even though certain types of games won't be graded as well, I believe is a very good thing to do so as too allow great diversity and originallity that would otherwise be missing.  The two of the judges didn't like how the player interacts with the game in Trouble in CloudLand, they could have ade it a rule that arena style shooters must be duel analog or keys to move mouse to shoot. But despite getting graded down for that I still like the style and I know some other people that do as well.  The judges aren't 'wrong' they just don't personally like it!  Putting in rules or guidelines to getting good scores would simply limit the diversity and would result in games intended for the judges instead of for the general audience.
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Read March 14, 2007, 12:02:19 PM #59
Matt McFarland

Re: Contest Results

Putting more rules and guidelines on the Judges only ruins the experience.  Shining Storm got such a low score because you guys screwed up with the level.  Perhaps if I added a Game-play Category you would have had the closure you need which would close this case. 

The game play score for shining storm would have been very low on my behalf.  To keep things simple and less complicated I just put it in the overall score.  I don't want people thinking that if they have a higher score in everything else that they deserve a better "overall" score.  That's only because its called "overall" after all.  I should call it "Judges Score" instead.

In reality somebodies ego has been hurt, their pride has been attacked, and they're lashing out.  The contest could have more rules on judges, and have more definitions on scores, but that will only hurt the judging process.  It will only make contests more difficult, all for the sake of keeping ones ego intact.   

At any rate, I'm no longer hosting contests.  It's not because people lash out over their scores, but its because this takes up too much of my free time and its holding me down.  I'm also done with shmup-dev, and am planning on giving it up as well.  Also, nothing to do with someone complaining. 

The more people the complain, the better, because that means your site actually matters Wink
« Last Edit: March 14, 2007, 12:06:43 PM by Matt McFarland »

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Read March 14, 2007, 12:19:23 PM #60
motorherp

Re: Contest Results

You make a good point jony.  I didn't quite mean laying down guidlines as specific as your examples, but its just shades of grey.

At any rate, I'm no longer hosting contests.  It's not because people lash out over their scores, but its because this takes up too much of my free time and its holding me down.  I'm also done with shmup-dev, and am planning on giving it up as well.

I'm sorry to hear that.  In my opinion this place is the best meeting ground for all the shmupers out there and is doing a great job helping keep the scene alive.  Personal life always has to come first though.  Ah well, let me be the first to say congratulations on doing such a great job with the place, I've really appreciated it.  Do you plan to close the site or will the torch be passed on?


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Read March 14, 2007, 12:27:41 PM #61
Matt McFarland

Re: Contest Results

Ah well, let me be the first to say congratulations on doing such a great job with the place, I've really appreciated it.  Do you plan to close the site or will the torch be passed on?

Thanks!  Well, yeah, I'm gonna pass the torch.  Whoever gets it is going to make this site way better than me, and this site will be up for ages.  I know this site is going to be a great success, I just can't bear it's burden anymore.


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Read March 14, 2007, 12:37:00 PM #62
dfyb

Re: Contest Results

Is my logic off?  Consider for example you can now get machines where you can place an object on a plynth and an array of lasers scan that object creating a computational model of it.  You can then hook this up to a machine which focuses lasers in a tank of resin to create a copy of that model.  Is the man who pushes the button to opperate the machinery an accomplished sculpter?  Does his 'work' deserve more credit than a man who sculpts with his hands out of clay even though the clay creations are no match for the complexity seen in the resin replicas?  I'm not saying you didn't put effort into your work or that using photoshop doesn't take skill, just that the complexity of the finished product isn't always a good indication of the skill involved which is what your arguments up till now have been based upon.
no, i definitely took the technique into consideration.  force majure used a primitive technique, yet still brought out fantastic visuals in the end -- i'd definitely rate force majure's graphics higher than my own out of sheer appreciation for his effort.  in force majure's example, it would be comparable to hand-sculpting something that in the end looks great.  but if someone hand sculpts a ball...  it's still just a ball.  anyone can draw a circle in mspaint in a couple clicks.  and there is something to be said about keeping with the times.  there are great tools available -- you shouldn't be afraid to use them.  if you create a good looking game for 1990, should it really get a similar score to a good looking game for 2006?  wouldn't that undermine and discredit the progression the industry has made?  this isn't the year 1990, so why should we have to look at games that look like they came from 1990?  when it's done exceptionally well, like with force majure, it works.  when i'm controlling a basic mspaint circle and shooting at squares, i think "the programmer should have got an artist."  

if the intent is to allow programmers to easily compete with artists in the graphics scores, then i question the intent.  is it really in the best interest of the community and genre to stick with 1990 graphics?  if the graphics can only be appreciated by fellow programmers, is it really successful?  

Quote
With regards to the confusion of your product I'm refering to the overall incompatability of the elements which make up the finished product.  There's no strong unifying colour scheme.  The style of the oribtal is completely different from that of the ships making it stand out and look wrong in the context.  The background in the distance speeds past really fast where as the clouds which are closer to the camera move slower?  The bullets and lights have glows and yet the enemy ships big laser in your video doesn't.  The lightning flashes occur from all angles.  See what I'm getting at, the elements just dont mesh together that well which creates confusion.  Each element on its own is very nicely done, and kudos for that, but the whole doesn't work as well.  The other games you refer to though all have very strong recurrent themes which gives a nive overall graphical feel even though their individual elements might not be as nice as yours.
there is a color scheme -- your bullets are yellow; the enemy bullets are not yellow.  there shouldn't need be a color scheme for ships because if it's not you, it's understood to be an enemy (many other games in the competition left this aspect implied as well).  i can agree with the orbital comment, but it's not different enough to be gamebreaking -- there is an importance to have it stand out for you to better utilize it.  i honestly don't see why you hold the clouds to a realistic standard of logic in a 2D shmup -- it's a passive visual effect and i really doubt they'd be better off flying across your view in a couple frames.  if you have trouble making sense of some clouds that move at similar speeds to a jet, i have no clue how you can make sense of some face icons shooting stars at other face icons floating around.  

i look at my game and see a pretty consistant package -- not perfect, but not even close to being broken or misguided.  your claims of not meshing together are quite contradictory to what most people say when they see it.  

http://www.shmuptacular.com/News/p2_articleid/148

"It's a very nice game with some amazing art and style."

matt - "I found the graphics to be great, the bullets to be very nice with the glowing and the background to be spectacular."

2bears - "I really like the art in this. The smeared, subtle shading of the backgrounds with the lightening effect and the ship designs all mesh really well together."

i'm not saying you have no right to disagree, but i can't really say "i messed up" when so many people say i succeeded.  

Quote from: jony
I rather disagree actually.
i never said the judges should specify control methods and what not.  if you look at what i wrote, it simply describes what "visuals" means versus what "content" means.  

Putting more rules and guidelines on the Judges only ruins the experience.  Shining Storm got such a low score because you guys screwed up with the level.  Perhaps if I added a Game-play Category you would have had the closure you need which would close this case. 

The game play score for shining storm would have been very low on my behalf.  To keep things simple and less complicated I just put it in the overall score.  I don't want people thinking that if they have a higher score in everything else that they deserve a better "overall" score.  That's only because its called "overall" after all.  I should call it "Judges Score" instead.
i was only talking about the graphics score.  you gave it a 91 while the others gave it 60's.  tim clarified and said he knocked off points in graphics because there was only a short level and a few enemies -- that clarification made it make more sense.  you didn't seem to account for the lack of content in the graphics score, but instead in the overall score.  i didn't disagree with that, either -- if anything, i think your scoring made the most sense.  

In reality somebodies ego has been hurt, their pride has been attacked, and they're lashing out.  The contest could have more rules on judges, and have more definitions on scores, but that will only hurt the judging process.  It will only make contests more difficult, all for the sake of keeping ones ego intact.   
jony made a lot of odd assertions when he decided to elaborate on what i thought of clearly defined categories that i don't agree with.  i totally agree with basically everything jony said.  he misunderstood what i meant.  

edit: and it's not really that my ego was hurt.  it's that i look at some of the games that scored better in graphics and think:  well that's weird... i wonder how they judged "graphics," because i think most people would disagree (and i've presented the question to third parties and so far they've agreed with me).  again though, i don't want anything to be changed -- what's done is done.  i wanted to get a better understanding of how my game's graphics could be rated relatively low and i do have a better understanding now.  i stepped on more toes than i wanted to and i apologize. 
« Last Edit: March 14, 2007, 12:44:00 PM by dfyb »
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Read March 14, 2007, 12:40:26 PM #63
Matt McFarland

Re: Contest Results

Ok! Smiley

edit: yeah I read you wrong, I thought you wanted the game to have a higher score anyway.  haha.  Anyways, after every contest we get people that are like "HEY WAIT A MINUTE!" .. well, the good contests..  A bad contest, well, nobody would care.  Anyways, its good to speak your mind, that's what the forums are for sir.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2007, 02:06:21 PM by Matt McFarland »

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Read March 14, 2007, 01:01:48 PM #64
motorherp

Re: Contest Results

Thats ok dfyb.  Its only natural to question what you dont understand.  In the end it comes down to personal opinions and not science so there'll always be disagreements.  For example an analogy would be some examples of modern art.  Some people appreciate its simplicity and boldness and the overall feel it gives.  Others argue that even a child could do it due its simplicity and so its not worthy.  I think next time jsut be a little more tactful that barging in with a sledge hammer saying that my game is better than x, y, and z  Wink


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Read March 14, 2007, 01:14:46 PM #65
Crimson Knight

Re: Contest Results

Um... I'll stay out of the whole bulk of discussion here. But, one's opinion doesn't reflect you, it reflects their perception of you, so while one can say "your game sucks" and another "your game was TEH BOHMB!!!111", they're just giving their opinion of you. If you believe you did great on X game, then IMO that's all you need to know really.

Obviously, I have a much different opinion of Arms of Avalon than the judges of the competition do. But I understand that everyone has a different perception of things. Smiley

Matt, I for one am bummed by your decision, I believe you gave the best perceived effort in judging all the games and I hoped you could continue to do so in future competitions. Will you still be enjoying the various future content?
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Read March 14, 2007, 01:58:22 PM #66
Pixel_Outlaw

Re: Contest Results

Thanks!  Well, yeah, I'm gonna pass the torch.  Whoever gets it is going to make this site way better than me, and this site will be up for ages.  I know this site is going to be a great success, I just can't bear it's burden anymore.

I understand, I assume you are cutting back on computer time in general?
Drop by from time to time. Smiley



Aviator sunglasses are pretty much the shmups of the sunglasses world.
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Read March 14, 2007, 02:20:23 PM #67
relsoft

Re: Contest Results

So who's the big boss now?

dfyb: If it's any consolation, I thought your game's GFX is second only to Force Majeure. But I'm not the judge.



Hello
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Read March 14, 2007, 02:31:58 PM #68
Matt McFarland

Re: Contest Results

So who's the big boss now?

dfyb: If it's any consolation, I thought your game's GFX is second only to Force Majeure. But I'm not the judge.



Still me Smiley I'm just going to sit here and let shmup-dev run stagnant until someone steps up to the plate..


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Read March 14, 2007, 02:48:08 PM #69
relsoft

Re: Contest Results

That's too bad. I came to have liked this forum. Oh well...


Hello
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Read March 14, 2007, 03:06:17 PM #70
Matt McFarland

Re: Contest Results

That's too bad. I came to have liked this forum. Oh well...


Hey!! Me too.. I just can't do it anymore.. I'm sorry..


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Read March 14, 2007, 03:11:28 PM #71
motorherp

Re: Contest Results

What would be involved in the upkeep of the site?  For example what needs doing day to day, what needs doing for contests, etc.  I dont think I can volunteer myself since I can go months with barely any spare time due to my work but if anyone is thinking of taking up the challenge it'd be nice to know what they'd be getting in for  Wink


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Read March 14, 2007, 04:40:41 PM #72
Matt McFarland

Re: Contest Results

Not much upkeep really.  Just keep the site up financially, and of course throw a contest or two.  Throwing a contest just involves contacting people all over the web with personal messages like "hey do you want to sponsor"

Just stuff like that.  The more you put into it, the better it gets.  Really...


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Read March 14, 2007, 10:00:57 PM #73
Adigun A. Polack

Re: Contest Results

Hey, I have been a webmaster of a couple of my sites for over 4 years myself, and I know firsthand how challengingly hard it is to maintain a site and run compos as well... and especially if you have been putting a shipload of finances into the site, Matt, one can only do so, *so* much before it comes time to pass the torch indeed.  You know?  Wink

The overall entire work that you did on Shmup-dev and hosting three contests since the very beginning is just nothing short of phenomenally amazing, I rather gotta say!!!  The games that you have inspired us to create (including me, in which I did compo versions of Dragon Dancer solo and the current Marvellous Twilight with Rel!!  cool1 ), the programming ideas, the fresh shmup concepts, everything!!!

For all of that great work that you do...

WE TRULY SALUTE YOU, MATT!!!

d=Grin=b !!

And I believe you *really* deserve a long break, so if you want to, go right ahead, my man!!!  You deserve it so richly indeed!!!  Wink !
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Read March 14, 2007, 10:39:43 PM #74
Pixel_Outlaw

Re: Contest Results

I hope somebody with the funds and knowledge steps up I really don't want this site to crash.

It's nice to have this forum because my game ideas wouldn't find much acceptance elsewhere.

If contests are the only thing pressuring you I'm sure we can go without them. I know that the last one was especially straining on you because you spend a day if not more playing each game. Not only that but you spend money to maintain the site and shell out cash for each contest. Don't feel that we demand contests, I come here for the company and advice. This forum is the ONLY place for shmup creators. Please make sure the new owner has grown up on shmups I don't want some indie MMORPG maker at the helm.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2007, 10:42:09 PM by Pixel_Outlaw »


Aviator sunglasses are pretty much the shmups of the sunglasses world.
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Read March 14, 2007, 11:34:29 PM #75
relsoft

Re: Contest Results

I hope somebody with the funds and knowledge steps up I really don't want this site to crash.

It's nice to have this forum because my game ideas wouldn't find much acceptance elsewhere.

If contests are the only thing pressuring you I'm sure we can go without them. I know that the last one was especially straining on you because you spend a day if not more playing each game. Not only that but you spend money to maintain the site and shell out cash for each contest. Don't feel that we demand contests, I come here for the company and advice. This forum is the ONLY place for shmup creators. Please make sure the new owner has grown up on shmups I don't want some indie MMORPG maker at the helm.
Hell yeah!


Hello
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Read March 15, 2007, 12:00:45 AM #76
fsFreak

Re: Contest Results

Tim: Only one song is 'borrowed' (and slightly uptempoed: which is the last boss song) and another song (actually named 'loveless' in blessed) which is a remix of the first level song in loveless Smiley. Cool that you noticed.
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Read March 15, 2007, 12:30:27 AM #77
motorherp

Re: Contest Results

I'm sure a small group of the regulars could band together to keep the place running as joint owners.  I like this community and it would be ashame to see it dissapear.  I'm willing to do my part anyway, its just my irregular free time and lack of experience managing a web site like this that puts me off being a sole owner.  I reckon I could probably support the site financialy though and help out with the organising etc.  You'll have to let me know the details Matt.  I'm going away for a while pretty soon so now isn't the best time but if nothing has been sorted by the time I get back in May I'll get a plan together.  Just make sure I've got something to come back to  Wink


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Read March 15, 2007, 02:37:49 AM #78
Matt McFarland

Re: Contest Results

Guys, I'm not going to take shmup-dev down.  I will keep it up and oversee its transfer very carefully.  I've recently had a spiritual experience and I am putting this site down.  I know some of you might find me to be very "crazy" for doing so, but I believe it is something I have to do.  I'm sacrificing my love and my leadership for this site, and I am giving it to someone else.  I will not leave this site untended, and if God wants me to stay leader then so be it.  But for now I feel it is most important for me to put everything that I enjoy down as a sacrifice as I seek my out my purpose.  I understand that you guys might think I'm absolutely insane, but that's something I can deal with.  What I CAN'T deal with, is just pulling the plug on this site!  I will NOT pull the plug.. No no. I am going to pass the torch. Smiley  So motorherp, go on your vacation and know this site will be waiting for you when you return.  I won't be taking it down.  If anyone wants a hint, then finger 2 Corinthians 5:17 - I'm not trying to make this site anything but shmups though, so seriously, just help me pass the torch and let me on my way Smiley

« Last Edit: March 15, 2007, 02:41:36 AM by Matt McFarland »

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Read March 15, 2007, 02:41:06 AM #79
Pixel_Outlaw

Re: Contest Results

You would be crazy NOT to follow your convictions. Smiley

Thanks Matt that clears some things up.



Aviator sunglasses are pretty much the shmups of the sunglasses world.
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Read March 15, 2007, 05:12:14 PM #80
cactus

Re: Contest Results

Sorry to hear about the site being "dropped", I hope you find someone who can match your previous inspiration and dedication to pass the torch to.

I feel kinda bad about bringing this up again, but as I suspected, the old download of the game is what people play when they check out the results here. And it doesn't say anywhere that it's an outdated version of the game with several bugs in it. And my game is getting a lot of critizism for things that I have fixed since the competition version of the game. Maybe you can add a link to the competition version at the bottom of the reviews field, and change the link to an up to date version of the game instead?

Sorry for being a bother  embarrassed2
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Read March 15, 2007, 05:27:38 PM #81
Matt McFarland

Re: Contest Results

Sorry to hear about the site being "dropped", I hope you find someone who can match your previous inspiration and dedication to pass the torch to.

I feel kinda bad about bringing this up again, but as I suspected, the old download of the game is what people play when they check out the results here. And it doesn't say anywhere that it's an outdated version of the game with several bugs in it. And my game is getting a lot of critizism for things that I have fixed since the competition version of the game. Maybe you can add a link to the competition version at the bottom of the reviews field, and change the link to an up to date version of the game instead?

Sorry for being a bother  embarrassed2

No no its not being dropped, just being moved. I'll address your issue tonight! thanks Smiley


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Read March 15, 2007, 11:27:59 PM #82
Matt McFarland

Re: Contest Results

Ok, I've put a big note on there saying that the versions are outdated.  Let me know if you need it adjusted Smiley


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Read March 15, 2007, 11:50:28 PM #83
cactus

Re: Contest Results

Ah, that's perfect! People who don't read messages in red bold letters deserve to get the bad version anyway... Thanks a lot  grin2=b
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