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Read January 17, 2006, 01:05:44 PM #0
Matt McFarland

Google Adwords

I was using Google Adwords to advertise this site, which has got us about 8 clicks so far.  Google was only charging me 5 cents per click, but then the next day they wanted 10 cents to 50 cents per click depending on the keyword.  NOW they want $1.00 for some keywords, $5.00 for other keywords, etc.  When does it end?  anyone ever use adwords to advertise and if so, did you have a similar experience and does the bid ever go down?  I'm currently not using adwords anymore because they all the sudden jumped the bids too high...


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Read January 17, 2006, 01:15:37 PM #1
paladin

Re: Google Adwords

to be honest matt, you're probably not going to generate any decent revenue using ads in the near future.  that's just my opinion, but i've ran few popular sites in the past and never made a dime.  donations are the way to go.  all you can do is hope and pray that people will donate.


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Read January 17, 2006, 01:31:00 PM #2
Matt McFarland

Re: Google Adwords

Paladin:

I'm not talking about Adsense, I'm talking about Adwords.  Adsense is being discussed in the "slow" thread, this is about Paying for clicks, not getting paid.. So google wants me to pay $5.00 if I want my ad showing up if someone uses the word "game maker" and $1.00 per click if someone types in "shmup" - its insane because yesterday thyey only wanted 10 cents, now dollars!?  Ouch!  So I'm not really messing with them now..
« Last Edit: January 17, 2006, 01:33:33 PM by Matt McFarland »

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Read January 19, 2006, 02:46:33 AM #3
kemical

Re: Google Adwords

maybe thats a sign that searches relating to shmup and stuff are going up ? they'd be able to keep tabs on that..
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Read January 19, 2006, 10:41:04 AM #4
d000hg

Re: Google Adwords

That price is extortionate. Can you ask them about it?
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Read January 19, 2006, 01:03:58 PM #5
Matt McFarland

Re: Google Adwords

I did, I emailed them about it, still awaiting a reply..  I wont increase my bid though, so they lost me as a customer as long as they keep asking for rediculious bids.


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Read January 19, 2006, 02:18:30 PM #6
stuffitall

Re: Google Adwords

I know what you mean Matt, I investigated using Adwords but they wanted to charge me extortionate prices for what was almost nothing at all. They don't seem to have a scheme or anything that small businesses / websites can use and that will be their weakness when somebody else goes for that market gap.

BTW, I'm "jcoleuk" from indie gamer under a different name.


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Read January 27, 2006, 06:44:39 PM #7
gamesmad

Re: Google Adwords

Yes, adwords is expensive per click, the best way to get views is to just tell people.

Will
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Read February 02, 2006, 10:30:41 AM #8
d000hg

Re: Google Adwords

Not good unless you have thousands of friends!
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Read February 02, 2006, 11:33:12 AM #9
Nexic

Re: Google Adwords

Adwords used to be alright, I never made direct profit with it, but the losses were minimal. Recently I tried it again, and with their new pricing methods it's almost impossible to make money (for the smaller indies anyway). Some people have managed to make it profitable, but it isn't easy.

Just telling people about it isn't likely to make you much either.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2006, 11:35:18 AM by Nexic »

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Read February 02, 2006, 11:46:10 AM #10
Matt McFarland

Re: Google Adwords

I dropped out of Adwords because they want $5.00 for ONE click on the keyword 'shmup' - I emailed them asking why they charged so much, and I received a generic answer which ended my interest in using Google.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2006, 01:14:01 PM by Matt McFarland »

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Read February 03, 2006, 05:19:51 AM #11
gamesmad

Re: Google Adwords

Not good unless you have thousands of friends!

You would be surpised actually, of you take evryone in your contact list on MSN, and put your display name as your site, then you will get some visits from some of those people.  If they like your site and what youhave to offer, then they will probably bookmark your site, and maybe tell their friends about it, especially if you have a "Tell a friend" form.  In turn that person could do the same, and the word can spread to people you could never have been able to advertise to before.

Will
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Read February 03, 2006, 05:56:47 AM #12
d000hg

Re: Google Adwords

If it really worked like that then selling your indie game would be a lot easier.
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Read February 04, 2006, 11:14:39 AM #13
Nexic

Re: Google Adwords

Doing that will at best get you a handful of visits, even if you have a large contact list. And only a small % of those who visited will bother to tell a friend. With a contact list of 100 you would be lucky to get 80 downloads out of that, and that wouldn't result in a single sale since your MSN contacts probably aren't the sort of pepole who pay for shareware games - even on portals full of shareware buyers, my games at best only manage 0.5% CR.
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Read February 04, 2006, 01:47:52 PM #14
gamesmad

Re: Google Adwords

OK, Im not gonna argue, all I know is what I was told at school by my English teacher, who used to be a customer cycologist for various websites.

Will
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Read February 04, 2006, 02:19:39 PM #15
Nexic

Re: Google Adwords

Psychologist?

The thing is, what works for some business models doesn't always work for others (I'm guessing your English teacher wasn't working in the shareware games biz?). Because of the low cost of each sale you need to get things infront of more people to make the money. If you were selling a brilliant new, and original invention  that most people would want, and it sold for $500 a unit, then telling people via MSN might actually work.

Perhaps this kind of thing would also work a bit better if your game was highly original, but if you are selling a known genre or a clone then you don't have much chance (the more original something is the more like people will tell each other about it).
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Read February 07, 2006, 02:46:08 PM #16
stuffitall

Re: Google Adwords

Quote
OK, Im not gonna argue, all I know is what I was told at school by my English teacher, who used to be a customer cycologist for various websites.

@ Will:

I've got more that 200 people on my contacts list and as you can see most of them have not visited my website. Your theory is correct though, word of mouth is very powerful and is often more effective in the long term than other forms of marketing. Smiley


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Read February 07, 2006, 03:06:59 PM #17
Matt McFarland

Re: Google Adwords

Word of Mouth works well, but I think so does all other forms of Marketing.  If Word of Mouth was so great, we wouldn't see all the other forms of marketing being used by corporations today.  I'm not descrediting WOM at all, but I wouldn't think of it as a sole source of increasing your exposure.
Word of Mouth can be your worst nightmare too.  It is more true that people tend to spread negative news over positive news for sure. 

Advertising in all forms is really only effective if it is Long Term, you really need to have your Logo or your presence to be seen over and over and over again.  Because the more people see your company in operation, the more they trust it.  It becomes something familiar to them, and this is one of the oldest tricks in the books.  It's why people prefer brand named food that's the same quality of generic food because they grew up on a brand they trust.  It's why you might be more willing to phone a company that you've seen on the TV for years, seen in magazines for years, etc.

Advertising in any form never gives you great return  right away.  Sure it can increase your revenue by a little bit, but it should always be seen as a long-term investment.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2006, 03:19:54 PM by Matt McFarland »

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Read February 07, 2006, 07:34:04 PM #18
Indiepath

Re: Google Adwords

I did use them but found I was being sent crap left right and center. I am fortunate enough to have a tracking package that can give me an amazing statistical detail.

Basically Adwords for me were a waste of time, of the thousands of clicks I paid for not one converted to a sale. My games sell by word of mouth Smiley




www.pjio.com - Upload, Tag, Share and Play.
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Read February 08, 2006, 05:10:52 AM #19
gamesmad

Re: Google Adwords

word of mouth is very powerful and is often more effective

"Word of mouth" was the expression I was looking for, the whole MSN thing was just an example that my teacher had given me of how word of mouth worked.

Will
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Read February 10, 2006, 04:20:20 PM #20
sonicbhoc

Re: Google Adwords

DON'T USE ANY GOOGLE AD PROGRAMS, THEY WILL SCREW YOU OVER!

It happens all the time: they just tell you that you falsely generated clicks to your site...
AND THEN TAKE ALL THE MONEY YOU EARNED for themselves. You can (ironically) search Google for proof...
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Read February 12, 2006, 02:04:19 PM #21
gamesmad

Re: Google Adwords

You got any direct links to an article about this?  It would make interesting reading, as I didnt have Adwords take any of my money, not even the money I gained when I was *ehem* testing *ehem* it out.

Will
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Read February 15, 2006, 12:13:10 PM #22
Polycount Productions

Re: Google Adwords

You got any direct links to an article about this?  It would make interesting reading, as I didnt have Adwords take any of my money, not even the money I gained when I was *ehem* testing *ehem* it out.

Will

Really? It might work sometimes...

...Cactus Bruce used them:
http://www.gameproducer.net/2006/02/08/sales-statistics-cactus-bruce-and-the-corporate-monkeys/


Owner of Polycount Productions - independent multiplayer games company
Game Producer Blog for beginner game developers
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Read February 16, 2006, 04:47:20 AM #23
d000hg

Re: Google Adwords

Really? It might work sometimes...
It seems pretty certain it is in general a useful tool for companies, otherwise it would have flopped by now.
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Read February 18, 2006, 12:24:56 PM #24
stuffitall

Re: Google Adwords

Really? It might work sometimes...
It seems pretty certain it is in general a useful tool for companies, otherwise it would have flopped by now.

Google's advertising programmes work best for large businesses.


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Read April 10, 2006, 05:55:16 PM #25
Dookie

Re: Google Adwords

I dunno if I'm one of the 'rare' ones, but I hardly EVER click on a Google (or any other) 'adword'.  Some of those sites are 'adware bombs', where when I click the adword I get bombarded by adware, spyware and popups.  Because of that, I don't click on adwords at all.  I usually simply type 'shmup' in Google and then start browsing the results.  As far as I know, appearing in the search results doesn't cost anything at all.  And if your site's popular, then your website will be listed ahead of less popular sites.  If it's any consolation, this site is the second listing on the first page of search results.  Not bad!

Since not everybody knows to Google 'shmup' and then find this site, I'd probably sink those advertising dollars in banner advertisement on popular development and games sites, or see if you could get some of those sites to say something about this site (like an interview, or a contest announcement, or something like that).

Another thing to do would be to try to figure out how to get the description on your Google search result to be short while remaining very descriptive.  Google 'shmup' and look at the current description for this site...  Right now, it only talks about users being able to upload games.  But there's so much wordiness in the description that 'upload games' is all anybody will get out of it - nothing about contests, games downloads, indie talent looking for possible employment, etc.  You should word it so it lets gamers know that there are games on your site for download, developers know their games can be hosted by you, and companies know your site is a place they can go to hire help for their own game projects.

Dem's my two cents!  Wink


The crows seemed to be calling his name, thought Caw.
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